ਵਿਕੀਪੀਡੀਆ:ਸੱਥ/ਪੁਰਾਣੀ ਚਰਚਾ 5

Gadget update notification

Sat Sri Akaal dear users! There is a notification for users using "/sandbox" sub-page for rough work or to develope their pages before moving them into main namespace.

"My sandbox" has been translated as "ਮੇਰਾ ਕੱਚਾ ਖ਼ਾਕਾ" and your "/sandbox" should now be "/ਕੱਚਾ ਖ਼ਾਕਾ". If you've enabled the gadget in your preferences that provides a link "My sandbox" in your "ਨਿੱਜੀ ਸੰਦ" box then it'll now show "ਮੇਰਾ ਕੱਚਾ ਖ਼ਾਕਾ" and link you to the "/ਕੱਚਾ ਖ਼ਾਕਾ" sub-page not the "/sandbox".

So please move your "User:Example/sandbox" to "User:Example/ਕੱਚਾ ਖ਼ਾਕਾ" to access it via the "ਮੇਰਾ ਕੱਚਾ ਖ਼ਾਕਾ" link in your "ਨਿੱਜੀ ਸੰਦ" box. If you're unable to make the move, you can ask an autoconfirmed/older user to do it for you.

Note: It's just for your ease; if you don't have any problem accessing it manually and if you're not using the sub-page, you no need to make any changes.

To enable the gadget please visit your preferences here, go to the "Gadgets" tab, check the box before "ਵਰਤੋਂਕਾਰ ਦੇ ਨਿੱਜੀ ਸੰਦ ਬਕਸੇ ਵਿਚ "ਮੇਰਾ ਕੱਚਾ ਖ਼ਾਕਾ" ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਵਾਧੂ ਲਿੰਕ ਜੋੜਦਾ ਹੈ।" under the Appearance section and then "save" the settings.

If you've any questions or need help, please feel free to ask here. Thanks for your time. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੭:੨੯, ੨੪ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

You are just trying to look clever with your ਖ਼, this letter is equal to german and dutch "G" and this sound is used very little in Punjabi (like in name ਖ਼ਾਨ) , also Punjabis dont say ਖ਼ਾਸ, Urdu, Paki punjabi and Certain dialects in Hindi say. Punjabi only says ਖਾਸ. This should also be ਖਾਕਾ not ਖ਼ਾਕਾ §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੧੩:੫੬, ੨੫ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Again you're denieing standard Punjabi for your dialect.

I think you know little about the standard Punjabi. Let me tell you. Words from Urdu/Persian are accepted in tatsam form and from Sanskrit in tadbhav form. Hope you'll now understand. And request you to repaire you your attitude. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੩:੦੩, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Tari ji there is no hard and fast rule about what you have said. Personally i think the alphabets with the persian accents should be used only if it makes a difference in the meaning. If i am supposed to choose from ਖਾਸ and ਖ਼ਾਸ, then i would obviously go with ਖਾਸ. And most of the Punjabi Scholars will say same as i am saying. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੩:੨੫, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

For example in case of ਸਜ਼ਾ and ਸਜਾ, Z is important because it makes a difference in the meaning. But in case of ਜ਼ਮੀਨ and ਜਮੀਨ, Z makes no difference and if anyone uses it then it is completely useless. I hope i am making myself clear. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੩:੩੩, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Indeed Satdeep ji, although I accept that ਜ਼ & ਖ਼ are used in Punjabi, it is still used very little, TariButtar is using them just so he looks upper class and clever like how the special pages all say ਖ਼ਾਸ, which is bad and inappropriate. and this ਖ਼ਾਕਾ is also wrong, what do you think about this Satdeep ji, Indian Punjabi people don't ਖ਼ਾਕਾ, they say ਖਾਕਾ? §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੧੩:੪੨, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Vibhas, In Punjabi not only ਖ਼ and ਜ਼ are used, those two were just examples.ਸ਼, ਫ਼, ਲ਼ and ਗ਼ are also used in Punjabi. But nowadays the trend has started use these alphabets only if using them makes a difference in the meaning.

Satdeep ji, I 100% agree with you, but don't you think TariButtar is overusing them just to make himself look clever? §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੧੬:੦੦, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

It may be like that but instead of blaming an admin, we should put our points in the community in a polite manner and let everyone decide. And Vibhas let me remind you that the very founding words of the Punjabi language are borrowed from Persian, like Punjab, Punjabi, Sikh, and many more. But i still support you on the fact that such alphabets should be used as less as possible. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੭:੫੩, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Y done - ਖ਼ → ਖ --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੩:੧੧, ੨੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Thank you for your help, please also ਖ਼ਾਸ → ਖਾਸ. §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੧੩:੪੫, ੨੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Old Admins Be Removed

I request to take back the rights of some Admins as they are no longer active on Punjabi Wiki. They are User:Gman124, User:Sukh, User:Tow and User:Surinder.wadhawan. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੦:੩੦, ੨੪ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Support

1. Support the removal of the sysop flag for Gman124 and Sukh. I think Surinder.wadhawan and Tow are just new and may be active in the near future and 'll be automatically removed as they're also temporary admins but as of Sukh and Gman124, I support the removal of their sysop flag being inactive for a long time. Even Sukh is inactive for years making his last edit on 13 oct. 2007. I think they've got retired and for our security their sysop flag must be removed. Let the consensus reach, I'll take it to higher authorities for the final action. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੧:੩੫, ੨੪ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
2. Support as per Satdeep and TariButtar. --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੬:੫੯, ੩੦ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
3. ਸਮਰਥਨ --ਰਾਜੇਂਦਰਾ ਸਿੰਘ (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੨੦:੧੩, ੩੧ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Comment

Please comment on this issue. Today we have only one active Admin in Punjabi but the no. shown is 5 which can be misleading. So, give you views about this.

ਬੋਲੀ, ਜ਼ਬਾਨ, ਭਾਸ਼ਾ

Here are 3 words who mean the same, I ask whole Punjabi language Wikipedia communities to help choose correct word to settle these all confusions. --ਰਾਜੇਨ੍ਦ੍ਰ ਸਿੰਘ (talk) ੧੫:੩੫, ੨੨ ਸਿਤੰਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Although those words mean the same but I would go for ਬੋਲੀ to be used and i'm observing it being in use.--ਸੰਧੂ | kJ (talk) ੦੦:੦੩, ੨੩ ਸਿਤੰਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

I think "boli" is good but sometimes seems that it is to representing only the speaken-type of a language; when we talk about a written-type of a language it seems to be not fully representing (just personally think so). Want hear more from you on this point. --tari Buttar (talk) ੧੬:੦੫, ੨੪ ਸਿਤੰਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

I know "boli" is a nice and sweet Punjbai word for language, and even I like using it. But we cant use it in Wikipedia because it will create problems when distinguishing "language" from "dialect", like if I want to create ਡੋਗਰੀ ਬੋਲੀ, It can refer to the Dogri Language or the Dogri Dialect of Punjabi. To avoid such confusions we should use "Bhasha" as it is also known well in Punjabi society and specifically refers to "language". ਜ਼ਬਾਨ does not mean language and comes into Punjbai as ਜਬਾਨ, which means tongue. It was probbaly pushed here with all of the other Urdu/Persian words that TariButtar has pushed here §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੧੦:੩੫, ੩ ਨਵੰਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

I agree that ਜ਼ਬਾਨ is tongue and when I saw it here I was a bit astounded, ਬੋਲੀ is widely used Punjabi word for language and dialect. for the sake of clarification we should use ਭਾਸ਼ਾ to refer to languages.

But I do have a doubt because I think ਭਾਸ਼ਾ should be „ਭਾਸਾ“

However we still need to consider the fact that „ਬੋਲੀ“ is used a lot and regarding the fact that it is just the spoken language and not the written language, We should still stick with ਭਾਸਾ --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੨:੫੧, ੩ ਨਵੰਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

by the way the in Punjabi, the word used for 'dialect' is "ਉਪ-ਬੋਲੀ", so no confusion. May it speaking a lot answering almost all the questions and doubts. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੪:੦੯, ੩ ਨਵੰਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

It is ਉਪਭਾਸ਼ਾ or ਉਪਬੋਲੀ, (no " - ") but ਬੋਲੀ is only for speak language and ਭਾਸ਼ਾ is for language when speak and write, so for Punjabi language wikipedia I will now state that ਭਾਸ਼ਾ is about the best we can do with our words. But the most beatiful word to use for language is ਜ਼ਬਾਨ, but I will follow wiki style and not to force my favourite on all the ther peoples. --ਰਾਜੇਂਦਰਾ ਸਿੰਘ (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੪:੧੩, ੩ ਨਵੰਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

ਬੋਲੀ, ਜ਼ਬਾਨ, ਭਾਸ਼ਾ all words are right and all means same but only difference is the Area where they are being in use like ਦੁਪੱਟਾ, ਪਰਨਾ, ਸਾਫ੍ਹਾ, ਮੁੱਕਾ means same but i(area i belong) use ਦੁਪੱਟਾ so during my schooling we seldom came across the word ਭਾਸ਼ਾ . Only studied about ਉਪ-ਬੋਲੀ or ਬੋਲੀ. Each Punjabi word alters area to area so guys you all are right but arguing on behalf of the word you use in area u belong.--ਸੰਧੂ | kJ (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੦:੪੫, ੪ ਨਵੰਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

I would like to go with ਭਾਸ਼ਾ due to some good reasons. One of them is that it has better paradigm than ਬੋਲੀ. And as rajendra said for language the word ਭਾਸ਼ਾ is used and ਬੋਲੀ is for the spoken one. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੪:੧੭, ੪ ਨਵੰਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)