ਵਿਕੀਪੀਡੀਆ:ਸੱਥ/ਪੁਰਾਣੀ ਚਰਚਾ 4

ਨਵਾਂ ਆਜ਼ਾਦ ਸਮੱਗਰੀ ਪੇਜ਼

I request this page to be deleted immediately. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੫:੫੯, ੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

then you should tag it with {{Delete}} and discuss it on the talk page of the article, not here,--Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੨੨:੨੭, ੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Y done, thanks for examining the wiki. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੧:੧੩, ੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Saab font

The current default font „Lohit Punjabi“ font has many bugs causing the lines to be crooked and the numerals to overlap and can make it difficult for readers to navigate this site. In order for the default font of this wiki to be changed to Saab, we need a community consensus. For more information please see the bugzilla case. Thanks, --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੫:੪੩, ੧੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

You may change order of fonts when you press select font, but i think in options to choose fonts Lohit font should remain one of the options. Reason is people who use linux operating sustem, it may be convenient for them to work with lohit font while editing. And what is the problem,any option selected in radio button ,gets stored in your preferences and for quite some period for which I am not sure may be it is 30 days it remains active.So what do we gain by removing lohit font option form the options of select font?Practically it is choice of individuals to use lohit, saab ,Raavi as default font for their web displays for Punjabi wikipedia.In other words meaning of default font is not clear and gain from that also is not clear when practically a choice is available to user that in which font he likes to see punjabi wiki.I for example keep reset button selected and it is Raavi font display every time when I start punjabi wiki. I do not have to select radio button for this again and again. Should I call reset or Raavi is default font for me? So my opinion is no change in select font options or at the most change in orders of 3 options if if it helps, but certainly, lohit font should not be removed from font options because Saab also has other dispaly problems like for letter ਖ਼.--Guglani (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੨:੪੪, ੧੪ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Sorry Guglani, nowhere did I state that we should remove lohit, we just want to use Saab as the default because Lohit is buggy, I see now the problem with ਖ਼ so perhaps maybe we should use the Raavi as deafult, then we have to start this consensus again. --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੪:੩੫, ੧੪ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Support

If you support this consensus please sign your name here with #~~~ and provide a reason.

1. Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ}, as per the problems mentioned above
2. tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] as I seen the problem was also mentioned before many times.
3. Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੬:੦੧, ੧੪ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Object

If you oppose this consensus please sign your name here with #~~~ and provide a reason.

ਤਾਜ ਮਹਲ

I posted my view onto the talk page of this page but no one replied. So i am saying it over here. The spellings of Taj Mahal in Punjabi should be "ਤਾਜ ਮਹਿਲ" instead of "ਤਾਜ ਮਹਲ". --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੬:੨੬, ੧੯ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

It's not necessary, please if you have something that has to do with a specific article keep the discussion on the talk page of the article, otherwise all the discussions will be all over the place. This is the place only for community matters, articles have their own talk page for a reason. --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੭:੫੦, ੧੯ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Y done but please discuss these issues on articles talk pages, please! --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੧:੦੨, ੨੦ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Ok,I did it earlier but no one replied. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੪:੨੬, ੨੦ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

In that case approach users and ask them to discuss the issue on the talk page, please. I think this is not the right place for these kind of common discussions. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੧:੪੦, ੨੦ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Here's some advice from Wikipedias in other languages. I hope that you find it useful.

When a question was posted to an article's talk page and there was no answer for some time, it's perfectly fine to go to a common page and ask for the community's attention. On the English Wikipedia the right place to ask for the community's attention is usually the talk page of a relevant WikiProject. In the Hebrew Wikipedia, where I write most of the time, there's a common "Bulletin board" page for questions of this kind, that weren't answered on the article's talk page. (The Hebrew Wikipedia has over 1,30,000 articles.)

The Punjabi Wikipedia is small now, so I think that it's OK to ask such questions on this page. When you'll think that there are too many of them, you can probably start a Bulletin board page, like in the Hebrew Wikipedia. --ਅਮੀਰ ਏਲਿਸ਼ਾ ਅਹਰੋਨਿ / Amir E. Aharoni (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੭:੪੩, ੨੧ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Okay, thanks! --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੭:੩੪, ੨੫ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Renewing adminship

TariButtar

Sat Sri Akaal users. As we have no village pump, I think, it may be a good place to announce that my temporary adminship is going to expire in few days and I want to renew it for one year. Thanks. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੩:੧੨, ੨੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Support

1. This wiki needs an admin and TariButtar shows a good understanding about how things are to be done. I therefore Support. --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੫:੦੭, ੨੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
2. Tari is doing a great work on Punjabi Wiki. I support him for this. I think we should be neutral about everything. Even though in the beginning i also got discourage when he would came and put ਬੇ-ਹਵਾਲਾ on the articles i posted. But the know i think what he did was right. Yeah, but he should be supportive in some cases. Another thing for which i am angry with him that he posted on Zarienah's Userpage, asking her to delete which one of us. An Admin should have the kind of attitude Amire has. I felt that why can't Tari have supported me in the same way as Amire did by saying that Vandalism is the only issue, nothing else is important. But he has taught me a lot and I support him as of now. Now he is the most active member and admin of Punjabi Wiki. Taking admin rights from him won't do any good to Punjabi Wiki. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੧:੩੩, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Comment Satdeep ji, giving TariButtar admin will he harmful and bad, he will make his own rules and harass the new people, please reconsider Satdeep ji, even see what he is saying to me in discussion, just maybe because I use Indian Dialect he may hate me, Satdeep ji you are indian and I'm sure you will agree in Punjabi we don't just too much Z and G like how TaruButtar is pushing. §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੧੩:੫੬, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Both of you are just adding your personal analysis here, please stop and discuss the actions of the user and the content, not your personal relationship or personal views of the user. --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੨

੩੯, ੨੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

3. I support Tari for extending his adminship.--ਸੰਧੂ | kJ (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੨:੩੯, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

4. ਮੈਂ Tari ਜੀ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰਬੰਧਕੀ ਅਗਾਂਹ ਵਧਾਉਣ ਦੀ ਹਿਮਾਇਤ ਕਰਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਹਮੇਸ਼ਾਂ ਇਸ ਵਿਕੀ ਉੱਤੇ ਬਿਨਾਂ ਡੋਲੇ ਯੋਗਦਾਨ ਦਿੰਦੇ ਰਹਿਣ ਲਈ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਕਰਦਾ ਹਾਂ।--Babanwalia (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੫:੪੯, ੨੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Oppose

1. I am using the view of Psubhashish explained and I was going to write the exactly the same, I do not think it would be good if TariButtar is admin, he implements policies from the English but he tells me that I'm not allowed to translate and work here like how I work in the Dutch wikipedia. Please do not give administrating rights to the user TariButtar. §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੧੩:੨੭, ੨੫ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Replied below. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੪:੨੦, ੨੫ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

2. As a member of this community I would say that renewing this administrator's mandate is not a wise or good idea. Recent interaction of this admin with both stewards and our community members both on pawiki leave me with a distinct impression that his philosophy (that is, his condescending "Be a good editor dear" "consider discussing a title to be correct with native Punjabis as your own account/user name is not correctly spelled" "your Hindi knowing people" "it's not official dear"; his preventive and blanked protections in the face of the wiki spirit; Telling me not to move pages without discussion. etc) is not suited for a holder of the sysop flag. Thanks you all for letting community members to chose admin --ਰਾਜੇਂਦਰਾ ਸਿੰਘ (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੦:੫੧, ੨੮ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Re: - you can make your comment without misleading hollow statements bcz you've already changed your user name as I (just) mentioned it's not spelled right." --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੧:੫੮, ੨੮ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

I request both of you to keep a cool head when commenting. People can spell their name the way they want to, most Zarinah's spell the name „Zarina“, but I spell it „Zarienah“, and there is nothing wrong in it? So, please let people spell their own name the way they want and please refrain from such comments.

Rajender, I think Tari is human, so he makes mistakes, some of your discussions were not that nice either. --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੨:੧੦, ੨੮ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

What is new? It's TariButtar trying to kick out the people who oppose him. §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੧੨:੪੭, ੨੮ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Comments

As I am not a Punjabi wikipedian I am writing this as a separate comment instead of supporting or opposing Taributtar's adminship renewal. I have been closely associated with the community building exercise which started in July 2012. Guglani and Satdeep have been supporting outreach events on the ground from the beginning. Guglani is also the oldest active Punjabi Wikipedia (active since last 4-5 years). TariButtar's some of the edits on Punjabi Wikipedia look unconstructive. Implementing policies of English in a smaller wiki, misconduct with fellow wikipedians, carrying on majority of discussions in English instead of Punjabi, accusing fellow wikipedian Satdeep for sock puppetry without any evidence of his edits as the case of sock puppetry, deleting stub articles without any consensus, misusing sysop priviledges are against wikipedia's policy and destructive. It is also harassing other editors and not a good sign for the growth of Punjabi Wikipedia. If these issues are resolved there is no point of granting adminship to TariButtar. Please don't consider the points I raised as opposition. But, at this point of time I don't think it's advisable to renew his adminship. --Psubhashish (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੮:੫੩, ੨੪ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

I never imagined my edits are being taken so wrongly. First of all I wanna reply @VibhasKS who is opposing just bcz of his personal views against me when I, with others supporting my side, tried to stop him creating duplicates and prefer to use the existing ones. Never I stop him translating, give me a single proof where I stopped you translating (moreover it's better done at translatewiki). No doubt, I experienced on the en.wiki and knows better about it but I never implied en.wiki policies here, I mostly given examples of the well developed but never implied their policies here hardly. Please be neutral.

Now, @Psubhashish, is being older is enough, experience has no value? I mean check Guglani's articles, do you think he's using the wiki as wiki? (just stated this line as you compared me with him) and even not made a single improvement when given a much detailed rare analysis. He even not once appreciated the efforts made my me, examinig his articles, making a single improvement and still fix to his views. If he never talked and try helping others in editing how could he be accused? Moreover, I think he himself needs learning more before helping others editing and styling (sorry if I've made any "should-not-be" statement). Also, please check he's saying that it's okay to write news articles here rather than accepting that wiki not for news and articles written in news style. Even when he knows that the pa.wikinews has be started. An admin is supposed to tell these things to others but he himself supporting, wohh!

If number of articles created by you make you eligible for adminship and not matters in which style they written (spamming, promotional, news etc.) then give me just two days, I'll create more than him.

As of stubs, I mostly deleted one sentence articles that are not even have any useful contents and were lacking insufficient contents to identify the subject and moreover they're deleted after tagging by users like Zarienah and Satdeep, not my own decision. I remember some users discussed with me that we should delete the one sentenced and I told them to tag accordingly. So please value my contributions in all namespaces and made standardizing and stylizing the wiki. I'm highly disappointed by such blames and my contribution being ignored. No one (local users or guests) even once said, "tari, this one from you was nice". :-(

Leaving the wiki in the hands of unexperienced ones only 'll not be a very wise decision, I think. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੪:੧੨, ੨੫ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

like how you and Zarienah valued my contributions ਵਰਤੌਂਕਾਰ_ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ:VibhasKS#Editing (click) §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੧੪:੨੩, ੨੫ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Okay lets check there, I exactly said, "Yeah, that 'll get you more experience of editing and, although they are not written in perfect Punjabi but, may make you familiar with Punjabi." what you found discouraging in it? Plz read it carefully, if you think this is done wrong then how you want yourself to be treated by others, I'm confused. What I've done wrong saying that? --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੪:੩੪, ੨੫ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

I was thinking about posting a discussion regarding the editing environment of Punjabi wikipedia for some time. Even though I involved in the community building activities for various Indic languages I never used to involve in the internal community issues of any language wikipedia. The main reason was communities are really small and when the community building is done from scratch all the users were very friendly to each other. So a minimum level of intervention is enough to get the things going in that case. Ideally the speakers of a language should be able to take care of their language and the various systems attached to that language. In the modern world the usage of language in cyber space is very much necessary to make sure that the language is not lagging behind in any front. Some of the indic languages are making much progress in this regard. But Punjabi was definitely lagging behind in the online activities. There might be many reasons for this. Since I am involved with the community building for Punjabi wikipedia it makes sense to place a comment on this discussion as I found for the past 3-4 months the editing environment in Punjabi wikipedia has become very bad.

Before proceeding further I need to give a brief background about Punjabi Wikipedia and the status of its community. The first edit in Punjabi Wikipedia happened long back in 2002 June. But nothing much happened over the past 10 years. A community started building around it only recently. I am involved a bit with the efforts to build community for Punjabi WIkipedia and I wrote a small blog post about the revival of Punjabi Wikipedia here. As we can make out from that blog post and also from the recent statistics a community started growing slowly here. If you like to understand last year's situation see this blogpsost.

So Punjabi Wikipedia is going through an important phase of its growth now. Due to the outreach efforts many new users are coming to it and if the community successfully continue doing community building activities it will soon sustain the growth and become one of the active Indic language wikipedia.

But all the good things I explained above there doesn't mean that every thing is fine there. Along with its revival it is going through a very very difficult phase which is affecting the current enthusisam. So I am going to present all the issues (most of the issues are created either by Taributtar and User:Zarienah) I found here.

The issues in Punjabi Wikipedia actually started with the mass selection of 4 administers. All the issues in Punjabi wikipedia started once temperary admin ship is given to the 4 proposed candidiates. Out of the 4 temperoray admins only user:Guglani and User:TariButtar are active now.

After the adminship is given to TariButtar, the wiki police in TariButtar started working . He (and User:Zarienah) do not understand why Punjabis are not editing in Punjabi wikipedia nor why this wiki was dormant all these 10 years. Both do not understand how carefully we have to behave to new and old users to keep them editing in Punjabi wikipedia. Both of them think the community in Punjabi wikipedia grows just like community has grown in English wikipedia. Both of them affected the morale and interst of many new users who came to this wiki. In short both of them had done much damange to Punabi language itself in the last 3 or 4 months. I feel sad about the many potential users we lost due to all these actions.

I do not have time to go after each and every edit of both these users. But both them need to stop stop doing wiki policing of other users and start writing articles in Punabi wikipedia.

I found that TariButtar is...

• Taributtar is deleting most short articles (or asking to post these in wikitionary) and he is devoting more time in criticism the edit of fellow Punjabi wikipedians rather than thinking in terms of growth of punjabi wikipedia content and community. My opinion is punjabi wikipedia is making a beginning and short articles are start of some topics. Important is visitors have some information on topic and links on those topic are collected ,these may be in some other language.At least labour which is done in locating useful links does not get waste and links get recorded for use by users so that same labour in locating links need not be done by others.Wikipedia is a collaborative project . To expect all articles with all facts in these supported by sources and well cited in the very beginning of an article is too much to expect from Punjabi wikipedians This must be understood in good perspective. When more number of people become contributing users coming from various fields which is case with English wikipedia then some such rules make sense.To lay such tight rules and delete topics on which interest is shown by some users will remove the ground on which we are to create a building in future.
• On most new and short articles TariButtar says add references and write in Wiki style or this page would be deleted. Again this shows his ignorance about wiki community building and pushing the Emglish wikipedia environment to an Indic wikipedia.
• Pushing the English wikipedia policies to terroriose new users

In the end I would say that users (especially new users) will lose interest in Punabi Wikipedia because of such stricter rules which certainly are borrowed from English community .

I am listing some of the admin violations, user defamation, hostility towards new and old users from TariButtar. There are many other wiki policing type of actions that are affecting the morale of new users (even old users also). I am listing some of the actions I noticed (since I cannot read Punjabi I am listing only those actions that I can understand).

1. blocking of new users stating some bizarre reason which is just ridiculous for any Indic language wikipedia.

TariButtar unblocked and reverted that action after Amir and I intervened. Thanks to this action but both users stopped editing. First of all encouraging Indic language speakers to edit indic language wikipedia itself require much effort. But these type of stupid actions helped to throw away few punjabi speakers who wanted to edit here. If a genuine user is making a mistake there is always a chance to mentor that user. But these type of stupid blockings killed any possibility of that user editing in Punjabi wikipedia.

2. Unnecessary protection of pages

See these actions. The funniest part is even though he is the only contributor to all these articles he cited "excessive vandelism" as reason for protection. I raised this issue on the talk page of a protected page.

Even the page with one edit (where TariButtar is the only contributor) is protected citing the reason as "excessive vandelism"!

And as usual TariButtar was not ready to accept the error. As usual he got the much needed help from User:Zarienah. Some other users also intervened. He finally obliged and after much discussion in the end he reverted all page protections "cleverly".

I should thank TariButtar for learning from mistakes, but his adament attitude is affecting the growth of Punabi wikipedia and more importantly wasting the time and energy of many people.

3. Unnecessary deletion of essential templates

See the deletion of non free Template the reason cited was "Unnecessary as an orphan wiki shouldn't support non-free media it needs much experienced users to manage". TariButtar do not have any idea why non-free fair use images are need in a wiki. Again if some one educate TariButtar will revert that. If there is a healthy editing environment exist here other wikipedians will help.

4. Unnecessary deletion of many stubs unilaterally without any discussion

See the log. Even though some of the deletions might be valid, a majority of them are part of wiki policing.

5. Last but not the least, see the user talk page of the current active users, village pump, and recent Changes and and see the type of discussion happening.

I feel mad when I scan through those discussions. Sock Puppetry, meat puppetry and all types of vandal related topics are the main topic in many of these discussion in this wikipedia which has hardly 7 or 8 active users. Actuallly many new users are just starting to learn Punjabi typing, wiki editing, and slowly start contributing here. If you accuse them with sock and meat puppetry then who will edit in this wiki. During the past few months how many potenntial Punjabi wikipedians we killed.

6. And this is a master piece.

I became speechless after reading that. How can any user defame a fellow wikipedian like this. I have worked with many Indic language wikipedians. But in no other wikipedia I have seen another user publiciy making fun of ther users. This is just ridiculous.

I am listing only those details I know/understood. I have received several emails from affected users which I am not sharing here due to privacy issues. I tried to contact TariButtar by email and expalin him the things. But that is not fetching any result. Also I am not in a mood to go on dicussing this for ever as punjabi wikipedia need to move on.

My real worry is, even though Punjabi wikipedia is more than 10 years old now now only a community started forming around it. So this stage is very very crucial to Punjabi wikipedia. We canot treat new (and old) users like this. The more dangerous thing happening now is, Punjabi wiki is becoming the wiki policing territory of two users. That will kill all the current active users. Even the current 7 or 8 active users will go away if this type of editing atmosphere exist here.

The most recent action which is is not related to this discussion is, TariButtar's action of renaming all important and vital template names to Punjabi which is wrong. He just do not know how the various templates in wikipedia are inter connected. I want to explain him why his action is wrong in this matter. But how can we explain things to a person who is very adament and so hostile to rest of the community members. I am completely frustarted by the current situation of Punjabi Wikipedia

User:Zarienah's actions need to be closely watched and take some serious actions to bring this wiki to normal editing atmosphere. Welcoming new users with sock or meat puppery allegations are the worst things that can heppen in a small wiki like Punjabi wiki. This wiki has just 7 or 8 users and all of them are speakers of Punjabi languages. And they all are editing here p?imarily because they all love Punjabi language. If you accuse them with sock and meat puppery just because they are relatives is the nice way of destorying a community. Is User:Zarienah's is in this wiki to destroy it.

First create a healthy editing atmosphere here. After that we can go for adminship and other things. And more important start conversing in Punabi here. After few weeks I would really love it I see all the conversation in this page is in Punjabi. If you are not use Punjabi in your discussions who will use it?

As mentioned above if there is a healthy editing environment exist in this wiki other Indic language wikipedians will help Punabi wikipedians in all possible ways to build its community. If we continue to welcome new users with sock puppetry and sock puppetry (this is User:Zarienah's masterpiece) type of allegations or block them for some stupied reason or terrorise them with english wikipedia policies.

We are here to develop a free encyclopedia in Punabi and you all are the speakers of Punjabi. Please be friendly with your fellow speakers and help them to get started in Punjabi wikipedia

--Shijualex (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੩:੩੬, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Shiju has got some nice points here which are required to be kept in mind and discussed. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੫:੨੧, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Reply to @Shiju. (Sorry, using my current device, I'm unable to reply at the right place, please feel free to place it)

My best wishes for the growth being a wiki.

But before anything I wanna context some of the blames on me:

first of all there is the sockpuppetry or meat puppetry case: why I'm accusing for that, Please please please please please please please plz plz plz plz note that I didn't started this and carefully check my responses! At the end I suggested to talk to the higher authorities. I just said bcz if I won't, Zarienah or more possibly you would criticizing me this time for ignoring the points of Zarienah but plz note what I suggested.

Protections: I protected them in good faith and removed when asked but as he said, "cleverly", it's, not wanna say, his attitude.

The analysis: I did everything just to help him, being myself experienced, in being a good editor and using a wiki like wiki. If, wishing the goodness of the wiki, asking someone to improve and not to use the wiki to spam or promotion is wrong then I'm sorry, I did it. If I can't say this to a responsible one (admin) to which I'm supposed to say, to a newbie? We requested him to contribute to the newly stared pa.wikinews but he still remain fixed with his views not caring ours. He was not accused bcz he never try to talk or help someone which did thinking for the wiki's goodness.

Non-free templates: Users even admins don't even know how to add sources to justify the images is okay to upload here, how can they manage the non-free ones. Even Guglani made no efforts when I informed him about this. Why you told me not to, when I did it. Why you're saying all this now, where were you then.

Block: I blocked after taken a guidence from a senior by the way and even unblocked when asked. Why you're not bolding the help given by me to him renaming his username?

I'm fool that replying when I seen none cares for my replies. I just asked why only admins are to be accused? Is there a single example a user told to repaire their attitude even look how VibhasKS talked to me and in which language I replied. Do admins are just to bow down, bow down, bow down and bow down. Not they're considered users contributing?

My best wishes for the growth of the wiki but being a wiki. If you call all the help by me, terrorising others, then what you, guests, are doing to me? Do you beleive that I would not get terrorised and, not leaving, continue editing here? --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੦:੦੫, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

TariButtar's reply about page protection, blocking, deletion of vital articles and templates show that the user is ready to correct the mistakes and move forward. This is exactly what you should be doing to other users also. Let it be Guglani, Satdeep, VibhaKS, or some else there is way to communicate the things to other users. It is definetely not in the way you did reagrding Guglani's edits. That is just ridiculous. Never behave like that to any fellow Punjabi wikipedian. You do not know how much damage you had done to Punjabi community by just that action. Due to the repated unhealthy actions from both of you all the bad wiki editing paractices are spreading to other editors like a disease. This definetely should be stopped.

My post is about the actions from both TariButtar and User:Zarienah. Sock/meat puppetry allegation is entirely User:Zarienah's creation.I edited my post a bit to make the statement about Sock/meat puppetry clear.

All the users need to correct themselves to create a good editing environment here. Let it be TariButtar, Guglani, Satdeep, or others I am ready top help Punjabi community to come of the current crisis. Definetely Adminship is not the issue in Punjabi wikipedia at this momment. The real issue here is creating a healthy editing atmosphere here. If you all participate I will help you to come out of this crisis. --Shijualex (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੫:੦੦, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Yes, what do police do? They Protect, so I'm trying to stop users from adding nonsense here and practicing sock puppetry. So I take that as a complement :) If you could understand Punjabi you would have found that these users are really messing around with two accounts and it is quite obvious, I've collected further proof and will be adding to the case soon. Another thing, the Gills editing was very disruptive and they had kind messages that told them to edit properly yet they never, so I had to be very solid to help get the way wiki is written straight, there is nothing wrong with this. I may have been a li'l harsh on VibhasKS, and for that I owe him a deep apology. Thanks Shiju for participating in this community project --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੫:੪੫, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

I do not think that TariButtar Ji is wanting for betterment and nourishment of Punjabi wiki, he is limiting its growth since he has chased many good users away also well as our other admin Guglani Ji and I did not want to come back here to listen to TariButtar and how he will do humiliations and discouagements. --ਰਾਜੇਂਦਰਾ ਸਿੰਘ (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੧:੦੫, ੨੮ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

O please spare me! Satdeep has been here since 2009 so I didn't welcome him with the case, once again I would say that if you had been able to understand Punjabi you would have found it really obvious, if you look closely I welcomed most users with smiles and stars, just maybe not VibhasKS, but nonetheless, you probably have something against me because I'm not Indian or something. Please examine how many barnstars I gave to new users and then throw such comments at me. --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੩:੪੬, ੨੮ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

• For your information, based on the discussion here, in steward assessment, it is not enough consensus to get one's adminship extended. Therefore the request for an extension has been processed on Meta as not done. Thank you. Wikitanvir ੧੪:੩੨, ੨੯ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Guglani

I hereby announce through this community portal that I have made request for continuation of Administrator right at least for one year as my temporary Administrator right is going to expire in few days. This is for betterment and nourishment of Punjabi wiki, since I best understand problems of community,its language & input methods etc. and have firm faith in practicing Five Pillars of Wikipedia.with the cooperation and collaboration of all of you only we can formulate good policies for this wiki which shall be helpful in expanding no. of contributing users(editors) and useful contents of this wiki .Thanks!

ਇਸ ਬਰਾਦਰੀ ਪਿੜ ਦੇ ਮਾਧਿਅਮ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਮੈਂ ਸਭ ਨੂੰ ਗਿਆਤ ਕਰਨਾ ਚਾਹੁੰਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਮੈਂ ਆਪਣੀ ਪ੍ਰਬੰਧਕ ਦੇ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਘੱਟੋ ਘੱਟ ਇਕ ਹੋਰ ਸਾਲ ਲਈ ਬਣੇ ਰਹਿਣ ਦੀ ਦਰਖਾਸਤ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਮੇਰੇ ਅਸਥਾਈ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਬੰਧਕ ਦੇ ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਕੁਝ ਦਿਨਾਂ ਤੱਕ ਸਮਾਪਤ ਹੋ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ।ਇਹ ਮੈਂ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਵਿਕੀ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰਫੁੱਲਤਾ ਤੇ ਇਸ ਦੇ ਸੁਧਾਰ ਲਈ ਕਰ ਰਿਹਾ ਹਾਂ।ਮੈਂ ਇਸ ਵਿਕੀ ਦੀ ਬਰਾਦਰੀ ਦੀਆਂ ਸਮੱਸਿਆਂਵਾਂ ,ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਬੋਲੀ ਤੇ ਇਸ ਦੇ ਇਨਪੁਟ ਢੰਗਾਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਵਿਸ਼ੇਸ਼ਤਾਵਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਚੰਗੀ ਤਰਾਂ ਸਮਝਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਵਿਕੀਪੀਡੀਆ ਦੇ ਪੰਜ ਥੰਮਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਅਮਲ ਵਿਚ ਲਿਆਉਣ ਲਈ ਪੂਰੀ ਤਰਾਂ ਵਚਨਬੱਧ ਹਾਂ।ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਸਭ ਦੇ ਸਹਿਯੋਗ ਨਾਲ ਹੀ ਅਸੀਂ ਇਸ ਵਿਕੀ ਦੀਆਂ ਚੰਗੀਆਂ ਨੀਤੀਆਂ ਘੜ ਸਕਦੇ ਹਾਂ ਜੋ ਇਸ ਵਿਕੀ ਦੇ ਪਲਰਣ ਤੇ ਵਧਣ ਫੁੱਲਣ ਤੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਲੇਖਾਂ ਦੇ ਯੋਗਦਾਨ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਵਰਤੋਂਕਾਰਾਂ(ਸੰਪਾਦਕਾਂ) ਦੀ ਗਿਣਤੀ ਦੇ ਵਾਧੇ ਵਿਚ ਸਹਾਈ ਹੋਣਗੀਆਂ।ਧੰਨਵਾਦ!--Guglani (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੪:੪੫, ੨੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Support

1. Very good user that has many years of experience in the Punjabi Wikipedia. Please give the administrative rights only for the user Guglani §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੧੩:੨੯, ੨੫ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Comment - I'm not saying he shouldn't be but which one of his edits show he is experienced as you you're saying, "only for the user"? Please be neutral. Being older never means one is experienced. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੭:੩੨, ੨੫ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

RE:Comment - Guglani has been here longer than you have so how it it not a fact that he has more experience than you? you may be experienced on en.wp but the policies change like in nl.wiki users with foreign script names are not allowed to edit, that's why I has to create a new account, Guglani wants to help formulate special ones special suited to pa.wp unlike you who just terrorists us with en.wp policies. §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ

RE - I just asked which one of his edits showing he is experienced? He has no issue what other use the wiki for as he is also using it sometimes like magazine, sometimes like newspaper and writing news articles here even when the pa.wikinews has been started. So please check every angle and not bring personal views in between if you really value wikipedia, but if you're not coming to the point, repeating the same like a robot, then I think no reason to lengthen the page. Thanks! --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੧:੦੧, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

RE Why does TariButtar keep commenting when somebody supports the candidate Guglani, TaruButtar just wants supreme authority to be successful in pushing all his persian words here. I don't think Guglani ji wants to do this, by his message it is clear that he knows Indian Punjabi better than TariButtar who will just keep attacking me because I am using the Indian Punjabi dialect. §§VibhasKS_ਚਰਚਾ ੧੩:੫੦, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Guglani should be an Admin. He is also doing a lot at the grass-root level to make the Punjabi Community. If i have become somewhat active then it is because of the motivation given by him and Shiju when they to Punjabi University, Patiala. I support him and i believe that he will correct any mistakes if there are any. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੨:੦੬, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

2. I support Guglani for renewing his adminship. --ਸੰਧੂ | kJ (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੨:੩੭, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

3. ਮੈਂ Guglani ਜੀ ਦੀ ਪ੍ਰਬੰਧਕੀ ਮੁੜ ਨਵੀਂ ਕਰਨ ਦੀ ਹਿਮਾਇਤ ਕਰਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਕਰਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਉਹ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਵਿਕੀ ਦੇ ਵਿਕਾਸ ਲਈ ਹਮੇਸ਼ਾਂ ਯੋਗਦਾਨ ਪਾਉਂਦੇ ਰਹਿਣਗੇ।--Babanwalia (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੫:੪੯, ੨੭ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

4. I support Guglani Ji for renewing his adminship. --ਰਾਜੇਂਦਰਾ ਸਿੰਘ (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੦:੨੦, ੨੮ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Oppose

1. According to Guglani's 144 pages analysis (and the way in which he responded to it) it seems he does not know how things are supposed to be done by wikipedia, he adds copyright works and files without being able to understand the seriousness of the matter. He writes news articles on the Punjabi wikipedia and even after telling him to edit in Punjabi wikinews he still wants to post them here. Also Guglani is no longer that active here, he also prefers not to discuss issues that other users want to bring to his attention, somthing that an admin should not be doing. Unfortunately Guglani needs more editing experience and needs no learn and understand what wikipedia is and is not, therefore I oppose his renewal of admin right. --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੫:੨੬, ੨੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Comment

Commenting as per Zarienah suggested.

The user, I think, should learn more about the wiki, editing, style, contents etc.. He made almost no efforts to improve articles created by him even after giving a much detailed guidence by me under Your 144 pages.. An analysis on his talk page. He also added all the files without any sources for which I called him thrice to act accordingly but he did nothing regarding and also used cut-n-paste method which is not expected from an admin specially, and also writing news here instead of/ignoring pa.wikinews. I think he should be a good editor also. It's not to disappoint him, just pointed out the improvement-needs that the user ignored and feels that he must learn editing. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੬:੪੪, ੨੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

vote of zarienah should not be counted for following reasons:

• 1.Zarienah understands the community and Punjabi language very little. She goes on grilling users like Satdeep on editing style of using spaces ,even when knowing from community portal discussion that spaces after digit ੯ are coming from lohit font .
• 2.She continues to press news articles to be posted on Punjabi Wikinews knowing fully well it has not yet been started and knows that a commitment from certain minimum no. of users is needed to start this.She is ignoring my suggestion that let us place all news articles separately in one category on Punjabi Wikipedia itself till Punjabi Wikinews is started for saving labor done on these because these are sources of future articles.
• 3.Her own contributions in article name spaces are nothing more than spam in punjabi .look at pages created, choice of words used having no meaning in Punjabi by her to represent certain categories in sl. no 6 to 14 to be specific on the link hereHer grammar is not up to the mark see quote in article ਸਨਾਤਮ ਕੌਰ contributed by her .Quote"ਜਦੋਂ ਸਨਾਤਮ ਕੌਰ ਇੱਕ ਬੱਚਾ ਸੀ, ਉਹ ਆਪਣੀ ਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਸਨ। ਜਦੋਂ ਉਸਨੇ ਹਾਈ ਸਕੂਲ ਵਿੱਚ ਸੀ, ਉਸਨੇ ਵਾਇਲਿਨ ਉੱਤੇ ਖੇਡਿਆ ਸੀ ਅਤੇ ਉਹ ਗਾਨੇ ਬਣਾਇਆ ਸੀ।"Unquote

• Further both tariButter and zarienah have ignored my reply on Your 144 pages.. An analysis. Deletion policies on punjabi wiki need to be created with community taking along which itself is very small .Good policies can only result if more users participate in this.
• And also users need to see my contributions in articles here .--Guglani (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੨੩:੫੪, ੨੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Guglani please don't make the wiki a battlefield. It's not that people created less number of articles can't vote. No doubt, you created many articles but sorry none of them is written in a wiki encyclopedic style which I told you in much detail earlier. You should accept what other points out in your articles but you stick to your personal views and ignoring any discussion on them and also supporting news articles to be written here. You should ask other users about the newly created pa.wikinews and develope it instead. You, no doubt, should learn about editing, style, section, heading, titles, formatting (remember once you compeletly confused the talk page by replying in between and without signatures), sourcing/referencing and please take copyright very seriously which you're taking for nothing. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੧:੫੭, ੨੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

If Guglani is not made an admin then Punjabi wiki will have only one active admin. I think that can cause many problems. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੦:੫੯, ੨੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Thank Satdeep for being a part of the discussion. Don't you think he should learn? Have you seen he never accepted disqualities in his articles and files and even ignored discussing them. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੨:੦੪, ੨੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

These things need to be discussed but i think he should remain an Admin. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੦:੩੯, ੨੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Guglani! Thanks for the analysis :) but you don't need to get all personal and criticize me here because this is your admin-ship discussion not mine. I know my Punjabi is not that good so that's why I use my sandbox first, something you need to learn! :-). By the fact you got all personal makes it obvious that you should not be admin, you need much more experience and need to learn what the wiki is for and not for.

Punjabi wikipedia is small and one Admin like TariButtar is enough, not much activity happens and what is happening TariButtar seems to know how to handle it. --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੩:੩੯, ੨੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Guglani, you are just trying to censor those who oppose you, another thing an admin should not be doing. --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੩:੪੨, ੨੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

• For your information, the request for exenstion has been processed and the candidate's adminship has been extended for half six months and will expire in April 29, 2012. Thanks and regards, Wikitanvir ੧੪:੩੭, ੨੯ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Cont.

Guglani, you stated, "..my suggestion that let us place all news articles separately in one category on Punjabi Wikipedia itself till Punjabi Wikinews is started..". If we do this Punjabi wikinews 'll never have it's own site and you're wrong saying, "..till Punjabi Wikinews is started.." because it has been started, by Zarienah I think. If we post news articles here then who 'll contribute to the newly started; on which basis it'll get its own site to which you're saying the articles 'll move later? So please contributes news articles to the newly started and ask other users to do so also. Thanks. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੪:੦੩, ੨੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

For the sake of Punjabi wiki growth, Much has been said by Shiju about being not so rigid on style in punjabi wiki like english wiki and about not to delete stubs mercilessly as done by tariButter . I fully endorse his views.

I have already replied to 144 articles analysis which tariButter is using for defaming me.I reproduce some extract here

Articles about current/developing events,practices ,people,places are of same importance as past .These will become light houses/landmarks in respective areas in future.encyclopedia meaning is not dictionary like stereotype description of some topics.Meanings are flexible with growth of technology,a particular language community,its values.Articles of punjabi wikinews nature have to remain in punjabi wikipedia since punjabi wikinews has not been made available yet .( I have further said at another place in discussions that these may be separately categorized till wikinews is fully available.) refer here

These articles need to be further developed .This may be done by anyone on Wikipedia .Limitation is small no. of contributing users.

These also need be developed as articles. Effort in collecting links should not go waste.

Taributter Ji, Your efforts to review and suggestions for improvements in articles with major contents contributed by me are appreciated .I may not agree with all your personal opinions and conclusions drawn which are largely based on your experience with English speaking community Wikipedia ,at the same time shall endeavor to work collaboratively with any fellow wikipedian for progress and improvement of Punjabi wikipedia . Punjabi Wikipedia community has to have its own guidelines based on its growing needs ,infancy and its own social values and aspects.In all this perspective and improvement process; main aim of 'speedily' reducing split of knowledge should not be set aside. --Guglani (talk) ੧੪:੪੯, ੨੯ ਅਗਸਤ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Reply on fresh points of zarienah and tari about wikinews . See the status of wikinews here . Has Zarienah contributed a single page there in incubation Punjabi wikinews see here what the link says.Is she serious about starting it?Neither has she posted about it on community portal . Has appreciable no. of users given commitment to her that they will contribute at wikinews?How can you consider Incubator wikinews will sustain and items posted there will remain available there when any one wants to use these as source for writing future Wikipedia articles.?

Regarding files . Yes I remained silent to reply about these. Background of remaining silent is non-healthy discussing environment which is obvious from the nature of discussions happening on community portal even now and for which shiju is helping by acting as tranquillizer. I am fully aware about cleaning of old files, copy right issues and at the same time any editor’s responsibilities for illustration of articles so that these become noteworthy & understandable .These issues are not weaknesses of a particular editor as is being projected by tariButter, but real issues to be jointly tackled by entire Indic community by devising a proper approach.There are nearly 1000 such files on hindi wiki.

illustration for explanations for non-free images

There are more than 150 files on Punjabi wiki. Out of which nearly 95 are loaded by me .One approach could be we should categorize these files into Free files for fair use, Non-free files for fair use and non-license files as is being done by some other wikis. Give ample chance and time to all users to provide additional information for sources and licenses for these files. Many files have stayed at this wiki for more than a year without any legal issue been raised ,these can stay for some more time as for most of my files I can say are under non free fair use files category, because these have been used for educational purpose of those very sources from where these have been taken, provided I am correctly able to recall their sources. But for this collaborative effort of every one on punjabi wiki is required so that some provide information , some devise formats for information , some do editing work and some have patience , because rome was not built in a day. Ultimate aim should be ,that most these illustrations about articles are sustained or are provided with alternative illustrations. And since wiki is collaborative it is not merely the responsibility of user who has done ground work that only he has to build the whole castle. An example format of information about a non-free file from hindi wiki is shown in screen shot. Any one who is knowledgeable about developing formats or templates is welcome to develop suitable templates for files and remember editors themselves have opted to contribute their work so one need not always keep on boasting that he has done this and he has done that .--Guglani (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੨੦:੫੭, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

A little relief

As of this, I've a relief that the truth finally came out (I was blaming for terrorising users by starting sock/meatpuppetry).

But there is a great worry that if the truth came out after such hurdles then it's just to kill users. The delay really kill users. Actually improper examinination do that. Why guests from others wikis not properly examine, following only telling what they're brought here?

But as of now, I may continue editing here. I suggest to examine more deeply, I'm sure many more blames on me 'll be vanished. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੪:੦੭, ੨੮ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Infact you are trying to cleverly bypass all the points I raised and put whole focus on Zarienah's sock/meat puppery action. But if you read the discussion carefully you can understand that there are many points that need correction from you. That is whole point of this discussion.

/I suggest to examine more deeply, I'm sure many more blames on me 'll be vanished. /

The wrong actions can not be erased, but you can correct yourself, and move forward. That is the correct wiki way.--Shijualex (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੪:੧੯, ੨੮ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)--Shijualex (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੪:੧੯, ੨੮ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

--Shijualex (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੪:੧੯, ੨੮ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

And the hostile Zarienah's blames too. --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੪:੧੫, ੨੮ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Do not worry. If any one analyse your edits (since most of your edits are in English) can easily make out that. Infact Io am able to participate in all these discussions only because both of you continue to use only English--Shijualex (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੪:੧੯, ੨੮ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

You are welcome to, but I've started using Punjabi as well :)) --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੪:੨੮, ੨੮ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

@Shijualex, Never I try to cleverly bypass as I directly pointed to "others blames on me". Then what's the cleverness in it if I'm directly pointed to the blames on me. Never I mentioned Zarienah's name. My English is not too bad, I think. :-) I switched to Punjabi, may be you checked.

I got very disappointed when the word "cleverly" is used for me. Users never talk to me sweetly but I'm still going on being neutral. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੪:੪੯, ੨੮ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Page protections

Sat Sri Akaal dear community! I've been asked to remove protection from the protected pages but before any action, wanna discuss it with you. Please discuss the page protections using a precise language as possible. Take a look here and discuss which of them should be protected and which not. Waiting for your response. Thanks! --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੬:੫੧, ੨੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

I don't see any reason to remove protection from these pages as most of them are related to Templates and some other technical stuff. So, I think they should be protected. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੦:੩੨, ੨੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

I agree with Vituzzu & ਅਮੀਰ ਏਲਿਸ਼ਾ ਅਹਰੋਨਿ, our community is small and there is much room for development. Protecting kills the wiki, It would be sad to see this wiki following in the steps of the German Wikipedia. --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੪:੧੯, ੨੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

I agree what the community 'll decide but I never copied other wikis in protecting pages and not even visit the German wiki, I think. Anyway, I mostly semi-protected the pages but there are also some pages that were protected by others. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੪:੨੪, ੨੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Y done - removed and, in some cases, soften the protections. Hope it'll help the wiki. Thanks! --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੫:੩੦, ੨੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

New Reference Template

User:VibhasKS is editing articles on his own without discussing it the community. He has made a new template and is enforcing it everyone else. Like Here. I request appropriate action to be taken against him. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੫:੪੫, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

Satdeep gill, that is not vandalism, wiki is for anybody to edit, if you have a problem them discuss on his talk page not need to attack here --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੫:੪੯, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

According to the community the template ਹਵਾਲੇ should be used. But he created his own and is using it without the approval of the community. Tari reverted one of his such edits but he did it again. This is sure case of deliberately vandalising Wiki. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੬:੦੦, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

You are deliberately creating fights Sateep gill, your own edits are not that perfect either and it took alot of time to tell you how articles are to be written. I've commented on the talk page. I told you before TWICE that these places have their own talk page, discuss it there instead of making our community portal so long and hard to navigate. --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੬:੦੬, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

I want others to know it. Amire has said that community being small, we can take up such questions in the community. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੬:੨੩, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

You need to listen, you are creating unnecessary space here, the community is growing and moving at a fast speed, please discuss it on the designated talk page. --Zarienah ^{ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ} ੧੬:੨੮, ੨੬ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)